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just want to say i feel for all the people who lost loved ones today i dont know what i would do if i lost my kids like this !!!
when 9-11 happened we respond with armed air marshals when something like this happens they want gun control I DONT GET IT
A must watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis
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I'm at a loss for words, how a monster could do this to children is beyond me. I moved your post to off topic, I agree with the lunacy of tighter gun control, and that's just my opinion. As long as this post stays civil and non political I will keep it unlocked
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[cool][#0000ff]You're right. There are many things that kill far more people every year than guns...cars, airplanes, alcohol, tobacco...even dogs. No ban on them.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]If you wanna see how a country lives under strict firearms bans go to Mexico. You can get jailed for months down there for simply having a single bullet in your possession. But guess who has a lot of guns? The drug cartels. They even outgun the Federales. And they kill thousands of their own people every year...because nobody else can fight back.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Guns don't kill people. Wackos do. Seems like that is the new way to get your fifteen minutes of fame is to spray a bunch of people with bullets. But confiscating guns from law-abiding citizens will not eliminate that mentality...and those who want guns (criminals) will still find ways to get them.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Oh yeah, after 9-11 there was no mass movement to eliminate air travel was there? The best we could do was start a war in Afghanistan...with guns.[/#0000ff]
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OK I'll bite. There was a very similar incident in China yesterday as well. You tell me what's the main difference: http://www.examiner.com/article/savage-k...en-injured
I'm not proposing anything as a solution but you're right you don't get it because you're not looking at both sides of the argument at all.
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I feel terrible for those that lost loved ones yesterday and pray to God that the innocent little kids all died instantly and didn't linger for even a moment in terror and agony. If I even think of losing one of my grandchildren like that, I get physically sick.
I am furious with the news media for the way they sensationalized that awful incident. It deserved national attention without doubt but was hammered to death.
I've had this incident heavy on my mind but had another thought that is, I think, more sobering. Nobody really knows how many children die equally horrible deaths in the middle east every day and, I think I read somewhere that over a thousand innocent little ones die of starvation in Africa every day. That thought put the tragedy of yesterday in another perspective for me.
Thoughts?
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I am sick over this tragic act. This man is pure evil! The means he used should not be relevant.
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The gun control nutsos are gonna try everything they can think of to make guns relevant and the reason for this horrible incident so get ready for a flap. I own guns and will until my dying day however that day comes, from natural means or from fighting to my last breath to keep them.
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So did I listen to too much Queens Ryche Operation Mind Crime and its causing me to see conspiracy where there isn't one or does anyone else think this is too evil for a misfit kid to come up with on his own. Seeing the way the dominos are starting to fall and hearing the agenda to get rid of guns. I can't help but wonder if this whole thing wasn't orchestrated by an incredibly evil power. I hope not and I feel so bad for the affected families. I hope they can somehow find peace but I know it will be hard for them and probably all of us as well. Sad times. J
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Guns are not the problem, our society is. Indeed there are more kids killed daily in this country by parents, moms bf etc. The gun control act of 1968 was passed on the heels of the Kennedy and Martin Luther King murders. The same factors are in play here. The folks that would like to see guns banned will use this strong emotional stimulus to try and get people disarmed. I think it would have been great if the principal of the school was armed and trained. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to have a good guy with a gun shoot him. As TD stated the Mexican drug cartell have lots of guns and it is illegal for them to have em. They kill thousands of people and its illegal for them to do that too. Laws dont stop criminals or wackos.
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So what was the message in China where the same thing happened but with a knife. Knife control? If anything that tells me there are mentally unstable people out there, one got a gun, one got a knife.
Again, I blame parenting. Teach, your children well.
Fine line between discipline and child abuse these days and we did that to ourselves as well.
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I guess my thought is, lets not do any knee jerk reactions to this. I believe there are political powers that want to capitalize on this terrible event to limit the freedoms that have made America great. I hope they won't succeed but I'm worried this time they may win. I'm mostly mad I didn't buy that new gun on Black Friday, now I won't be able to afford it. Later J
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Well, take some comfort in knowing, they do work for us[  ] Maybe it will come down to us reminding them this.[cool] [angelic]
Also, remember, we should have the freedom to fish the rivers here in good ol' Utah...and yet we get Herbert for another term and no rivers..crazy.
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"Guns are not the problem, our society is."
[cool][#0000FF] These tragedies should never happen...but they do. And each of us must deal with them in our own way. But it is foolish to start running around wild-eyed and pointing fingers in all directions...trying to affix the blame.
Ultimately the blame lies solely with the shooter. We can forgive them or not. Sure, we can blame it on guns, parents, teachers, Obama or whatever else is convenient to blame. The  truth is that we now live in a society where unthinkable tragedies are almost commonplace. And "troubled persons" see such attention-getting and newsworthy events as the ideal way to commit suicide. Some of them plan their actions for days, weeks or months...glorying in what they think everybody is going to be saying about them when they are gone.
There are countless sources of stress and anxiety in our modern world that might cause someone to lose their grip on reality and choose to end it all rather than try to turn things around. And once someone has "gone 'round the bend" and is committed to their plan there is little anybody in their world can do to change their minds. The best we can do is to pay attention to those around us and try to recognize the potential for irrational actions and to prevent them if we can.
It's the fault of parents, teachers and supervisors who have not properly structured those people? Yeah right. These people in positions of authority are often the first ones to go down in the process. I'm sure the guy in Connecticut once loved his mother and obeyed her. But in his warped state of mind she became the enemy and his first target.
The vast majority of parents and teachers care about their kids and students and do all within their power to help make them responsible members of society. It's not their fault that a few slip through the cracks and become news items.
It scares the heck out of me when I see the mass hysteria that follows every major disaster. It reminds me of a wounded animal that growls and bites at everybody who comes near and tries to help. Nothing or nobody is exempt from somebody's finger pointing. And in reality, we should always remember that whenever you point a finger of blame...there are three more pointing back at you.
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A parent will take the credit for raising a child who excels at one thing or another. I know myself, I would not be the musician or the tier/fisher I am today if not for my mother.
So, in the same breath I do feel the parents are responsible when the child messes up.
After all TV and Games are now their baby sitters.
Note the age of these assassins that are in the news. Then also not that there does follow some sort of mental issue.
I don't know if I call it pointing fingers or sorting out facts. It is just a discussion after all.
This helps some of us make sense of this. Maybe you saying this is pointing fingers helps you.
Just a discussion and another great write up Tube Dude. You sure do write purdy[ ]
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[cool][#0000FF] You pretty much summed it up with the statement that we each need to make sense of something like this in our own way. Only the most heartless person would dismiss such tragedies as "not my concern".
It is said that most of our habits and actions can be attributed to either "nature or nurture"...heredity or environment. I believe we ultimately become the product of both our upbringing and the influences of whatever world we live in. And yes, I too believe that parental guidance and examples are key elements. But unfortunately, in our society, there are far too many children that grow up in single parent families...or no-parent families...without the benefit of daily positive coaching and reinforcement. Just as unfortunately, the pulls of negative peer group pressure and the abundance of harmful choices available to modern kids can influence young minds and pull them away from the standards taught by parents.
I would hate to be a kid growing up in today's society. Even worse, I would hate to be raising kids these days. First, I have already put in my time and made all my prerequisite mistakes...and I'm too damn old for that stuff now. But in my day things were far simpler and there were far fewer distractions...crime, drugs, violence on TV, decaying family values, etc. They have always been around but not as much "in your face". Add in the easy access to the "bad side" of the Internet, the daily dose of doom and gloom on the news and it is easy to see why kids become overwhelmed and discouraged about life.
Anxiety and depression are rampant...and not only among young people. But the young people who are acting out with public "statements" are simply less capable of coping. They are less likely to seek help from older people...whom they automatically distrust. So they hold it in until they explode.
Lest I come off as being too cynical, clinical and analytical, rather than someone who cares, let me assure you that this most recent atrocity DID really get to me. As a father and grandfather I died a little bit myself as the news of the shootings and aftermath unfolded. And each picture of the victims...who could have been my children or grandchildren...sent cold knives through my heart.
My first reaction when hearing that the shooter had taken himself out was "Good. Save the taxpayers a lot of money for a trial." But then I began to feel sorry for the young man who had done this. He did a terrible thing, but one can only guess at the forces that drove him to do it...and how much he was suffering inside. Not an excuse but possibly a reason. Who can ever really know what causes others to do what they do.
Like most of the world, I remain shocked and dismayed at what happened. I only wish I had an easy answer for a common-sense way to help insure that something like this will never happen again.
It brings ness to a season that should be full of joy and family togetherness. The best we can do is be thankful that our loved ones are safe and still with us. The only real positive side of all this is that it serves to remind us that life is fragile and may be taken from us at any time. We need to be grateful for every day we are given and make the best of it. And we should never bypass an opportunity to let others know that we love and appreciate them in our lives...before we can no longer do so.
You began your post with: "[/#0000FF]A parent will take the credit for raising a child who excels at one thing or another"
[#0000FF]
That reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:
"Heredity is what the parent of a gifted child believes in."
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Pat,
I admire and also flat out envy your way of putting things co eloquently, concisely and cogently. Good on ya!
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[cool][#0000FF]Thanks, Tom.
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I had to post this.
![[Image: Mail1.jpg]](http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f17/FlyGoddess/Mail1.jpg)
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I am just posting this, I don't know how true the stats are:
US Gun Statistics
Various Sources
2-2-5
(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
© Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.
(Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept. of Health Human Services)
Guns
(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
Yes, that is 80 million.
(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
© The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188.
Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do."
FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.
Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand!
Out of concern for the public at large, I have withheld the statistics on lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek medical attention.
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