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I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INTO SHOOTING AS I GREW UP, BUT NEVER HAD THE MONEY TO INVEST IN A VARIETY OF GUNS. I HAVE HAD SOME FORMAL FIREARMS TRAINING THAT WAS FOCUSSED ON SHOOTING HANDGUNS (IN THE POLICE ACADEMY) BUT I HAVE NEVER BEEN MUCH INTO RIFLES, OR THE BALISTICS OF RIFLES. I AM NOW GETTING INTERESTED IN SHOOTING RIFLES, AND I AM FINDING THAT MY .22 RIMFIRE IS NOT WHAT I WANT. WILL ANYONE SHARE THEIR OPINION WITH ME? I AM THINKING ABOUT BUYING A .223, IS THIS A GOOD GUN, WHAT IS GOOD ABOUT IT, CAN I USE IT FOR BIG GAME, IF SO HOW BIG? I HAVE ALSO LOOKED AT A FEW RIFLES THAT SHOOT 7.62X39 ARE THESE ANY GOOD FOR SHOOTING ANYTHING BUT PAPER, CANS, AND JACKRABBITS. I HAVE OWNED A 30-06 AND WAS NOT UNHAPPY WITH IT, BUT I'D LIKE TO TRY TO FIND A BETTER GUN, AND I CAN'T BUY EVERY ONE (WELL I'D LIKE TO, BUT I LIKE MY WIFE BETTER THAN I THINK I COULD LIKE ANY GUN) TO FIND OUT FOR MYSELF.
THANKS
STEVE B.
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don't do much hunting myself but what little reading i've done suggest a .223 is more suitable for varmit hunting coyotas and such you could probably take a deer with one but slug weight is a little light 7.62 x 39 is your SKS/AK47 round while a little heaver they are not known for there accurrcey if you were looking for a all round gun i would look at a .308 a little smaller then a 30-06 but packs plenty of punch i believe you should be able to take a elk down with one maybe even a moose though i'm not sure about that well that this non hunter point of view......anyone else ?
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I dont know about utah,but in wyoming a .223 is illegal to hunt big game with.You might want to check the regs,but it sure makes a sweet varmit gun.
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they are right about the .223 a great varmit gun and cheap to shoot but about the biggest that you could take down with it is a antalope. if you are looking for a good all around gun i would take a look at a .270 you can hun everything from smaller game deer and antalope ect to elk if you wanted
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I'd highly recomend going a step higher, to the .243 for deer, antalope, and varmin. I have mine that I love! It shoots a good distance, and hits good. For larger game, a 7mm is perfect. My dad uses one that I've borrowed for my elk, and it works great. It's also killed 3 deer, 3 elk and 2 bison. Its range is amazing. I'd think you could hit accuratly up to 1,000 yards with good wind conditions. Buy a Remington or Browning, or some other high quality firearm. My uncle has an old 25-06 that was made by a little known company(can't remember the name now) and it always jams up when he tries to get a shell in. He's screwed up on a 32" four point buck because of it.
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COOL! You guys are awsome! Thanks for your input. I don't know if I will ever hunt the general buck deer hunt again, I was just wondering about the gun's capability. It is always good to know there are people willing to give me the facts as they see them. It sounds like I wouldn't go wrong buying a 223, or a7.62x39. I have been looking at a Ruger mini-14 and I think I may start saving my nickles and dimes till I can afford one. Maybe while my money is gathering I will come accross a good deal on something.
Once again thanks for your input!
Steve
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i used to hunt deer with 22/250 all the time and a .223 is a little bigger. they are fast very fast. my self i love smaller calibers. 270 or a 7mm is the lagerest i will ever use. you just have to be a good shoot.. and take a look at what the military uses a lot of. if i remember right a .223 is what the m16 shoots
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Hey Cowmilker,
I have had some hardcore firearms training, SEAL Team 3 94-98, and I would not hunt big game with anything less than a .30 cal gun, IE 308, 30.06 and so forth. You want the power and energy to be able to cleanly take down big game and not wound them. A 7mm is a little smaller but very powerful and a good hunting gun. The Ruger mini 14 is a fun gun but it is not accurate or reliable. These are just my opionions taken from training and experience.
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[#0000ff][size 2] I beleive the regs state that it has to be a larger round than .25.[/size][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][size 2] I've been using a .300 savage and its a good all round gun for just about anything, and I have taken doen an elk with it but its a little light for elk. Just doesn't have the punch required. I pulled up ballistics charts for my gun and they aren't that good.[/size][/#0000ff]
[url "http://www.remington.com/default"][#0000ff][size 2] http://www.remington.com/default[/size][/#0000ff][/url]
[#0000ff][size 2] [#0000ff]Here is a link to the Remington website then go to the ammo and drop down to [/#0000ff]ballistics. You can compare between calibers.[/size][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][size 2]I've used a .308 and it had plenty of punch when I pulled down a big cow a few years ago @ 200yds. Good luck on you choice of a firearm, there are lots to choose from.[/size][/#0000ff]
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[#660000][size 4]Here are the regs from the Big Game Proc. It looks like the .25 cal. Restriction is only for handguns. I hunt deer with a guy that will only use his .22-250 and has never had any problems with it on deer. Of course he is an excellent shot and gets in a lot of practice through the year.[/size][/#660000]
[#660000][size 4]VII. Firearms and archery equipment[/size][/#660000]
A. Prohibited Weapons
R657-5-8
(1) A person may not use any weapon or device to take big game other than those expressly permitted in this proclamation.
(2) A person may not use:
(a) a firearm capable of being fired fully automatic; or
(b) any light enhancement device or aiming device that casts a beam of light.
B. Rifles and Shotguns
R657-5-9
(1) The following rifles and shotguns may be used to take big game:
(a) any rifle firing centerfire cartridges and expanding bullets; and
(b) a shotgun, 20 gauge or larger, firing only 00 or larger buckshot or slug ammunition.
C. Handguns
R657-5-10
(1) A handgun may be used to take deer and pronghorn, provided the handgun is a minimum of .24 caliber, fires a centerfire cartridge with an expanding bullet and develops 500 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle.
(2) A handgun may be used to take elk, moose, bison, bighorn sheep and Rocky Mountain goat provided the handgun is a minimum of .24 caliber, fires a centerfire cartridge with an expanding bullet and develops 500 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards.
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I own a 22-250 and have dispatched a few deer with it. However, something in the .30cal range would be much more suitable for deer and especially elk. Everyone's gonna have there own preferences. I would say that a .270 is a perfect caliber for deer (just my opinion). Heck, you could probably kill a deer with a .22 if you had the right shot. However, not only would this be illegal but quite irresponsible. I ran a similar post about handguns and calibers on the "not neccessarily fishing" board. I had some really good feedback there too.[  ] Maybe give that board a try as well.
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I knew there was something but could not remember all the details. Thanks for finding that in the Proclamation.
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.223=great varmint gun (coyotes, long range rabbit shooting, etc.) ILLEGAL to use for big game.
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O.K., O.K., O.K., it's not for big game, I understand now. New question!! Can I get .223 in semi-auto other than a mini-14, or an AR-15, and still have a good gun?
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oh yeah plenty of guns that shoot a .223 just go to a gun shop and ask you could also go to a libary and look thru the 2003 gun index not sure who puts it out or if 04 is out yet
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Knockdown Power
Muzzle energy impresses humans, but it's not what kills animals.
Back in the late I95Os, my illustrious predecessor Warren Page wrote an article titled “Knock Down Nothing,” in which he spilled the dirty secret that no projectile actually takes an animal off its feet—and that all the slavish attention paid to velocities, bullet weights, and foot-pounds of energy is pretty much wasted.
I didn’t see how a man who had hunted all over the world and killed more animals than I had dreamed of could say such things, but as I have learned, he was dead (no pun intended) right.
ACTUAL CASE STUDIES
Animals drop because of damage to the brain or the spinal column, which stops signals to the legs; and die when the oxygen in their brains runs out. The bullet’s impact is not the direct cause.
Last fall, I killed two deer with a puny 6.5x55mm handload—a 125-grain bullet at 2750 fps. One fell in its tracks, and the other went one step and dropped. A week later, I killed a deer of roughly the same size with a .300 Jarrett, a cartridge similar to the ferocious .300 Weatherby, and one which shoots a 200-grain bullet at just under 3000 fps. It has exactly twice the muzzle energy of the little 6.5x55. That animal ran for perhaps 60 yards before she went down, in defiance of all that power. A few months earlier, that same rifle and load dumped a 1,500-pound Alaska moose in its tracks. But it didn’t knock the critter off its hooves.
A few years ago I killed a whitetail doe with a .270 that entered the rib cage on the left side and ranged forward to exit the right shoulder, breaking it in the process, and demolishing both lungs and the heart. The bullet almost cut the poor creature in half but did not knock it down. That doe ran for 70 yards.
Good taste constrains me from going on, because good taste is everything to me. I trust that I have made my case.
THE POINT
If you want to hunt big animals, you use a big cartridge that shoots a big bullet. Thick hides, heavy bones, and massive muscles are too much for a small bullet to get through to where it has to do its work. A big bullet will penetrate, but it doesn’t knock anything to the ground.
Similarly, high velocity is useful only because it makes hitting at long range much easier than low velocity. All those thousands of feet per second are not going to sweep any critter off its feet.
(On the other hand, hypervelocity does do some interesting things. I’ve seen tiny 50-grain bullets driven at 4000 fps from a .220 Swift penetrate iron plates that 180-grain .30-caliber game bullets couldn’t punch through.)
You may, if you wish, make this much more complicated than it really has to be, but you would be better off learning all about nuclear physics or the Big Bang theory. If I had studied my lessons instead of committing ballistics tables to memory, I might have amounted to something in life. Profit by my tragic example.
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Aw heck,, go with a 300 Win. Mag., then there will be NO question about its knock down power when it comes to Jack Rabbits[laugh]. Its what I use!
Seriously though.. A good all around pea shooter would be a .243.
I own both the 300 Mag and a 243. Over my many years of Elk & Deer huntin' I've tipped just as many Elk over with the 243 as I have the Mag. Although, while the 243 is in hand I do try for head/neck shots far more often than with the mag.. I truly suggest a 243..
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[ ]No one has mentioned the 30-30. This shoot'in stick has brought down more deer than ANY other rifle. It's accurate up to ~ 100 yards, won't tear your shoulder off and is relatively cheap to shoot.
If it good enough for John Wayne....it's good enough for me.
Jim
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[  ][ ]hey there buddy boys! haha polokid invited me overthru haha well you guys are fergittin. what was it john wayne, roy rogers, gene autry use to use??? and me fer the neighbors haha just bustin, haha ALL ROUND GUN! and does good fer everythin?????? huh? the old30/30! AHHA i got me an old model 54 winchester, it.ll tke down bear, deer elk, cougar, whatever. hit the rabbit in the head! haha but it,s a good brush gun as well as knock down power! yessa, i love my ol gun. right on, not too big, or heavy, can put it right on the  dle, and not too small. and jgits the job done. my son has a nice 243 that,s a nice gun. but it,s a faast bullet well you know what i mean. and ya got to shoot it, in the right spot fer it to bleed, cause it is such a fast bullet. but distance it,s a trooper, but i still like my 30.30 better. ahha gramp had the octogon the first one i shot, at 5-6 and knocked me on my everlovin, but it is a heavy gun, that was a 30/30 too. i guess other than that that,s all i got to say on this subject! haha later[ ]
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