Trolling question

[Fishin208]

I am pretty new to trolling and will be trolling for trout and kokanee using leaded line. I was wondering if there is some rule of thumb on depth of lure with the amount of colors of line you let out. I know speed adds alot of variable but we can assume a normal troll speed of 1.2 and 2 mph. Any input will be appreciated.
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[MMDon]

There is a lot to know about Kokanee fishing to be consistently successful throughout the summer. Most of Kokanee fishing surrounds the species comfort level in the water column. Kokanee like to be within a few feet of 56.5 degrees water temperature. This comfort zone is one of the largest factors at the size of each crop of 3 year old Kokanee. The longer the fish can stay up high enough in the water to feed on their mainstay, plankton, the larger the fish. Having a long cool springtime after ice out with the water temps staying colder will create larger fish. Since plankton are mainly found high enough in the water column for major sunlight penetration, the top 20 feet, this will be the biggest determining factor.

The next factor will be what fish see. A salmon's eye sight in the water column is very similar to a human beings. Certain colors only penetrate so far down before those colors visually turn gray. A general rule of thumb is to fish pinks, reds, and oranges down to about 24'. 24 to 40' most fishermen will be fishing green and chartreuse. Beyond that the light penetration moves to blues and purples. Glow type lures are also popular below 40' as well as on dark days.

Contrast to the water column can also prove to be successful. What dodgers and lures stand out against the background is very helpful. Bright colored lures on sunny days and darker lures on cloudy days can produce well.

Sound is an important factor. Kokanee, in cloudy or deep water depths are generally attracted to the sounds made by your lure or dodger. To this end, guys that troll with pop gear are to be avoided. To Kokanee, popgear sounds like a predator fish school, which it was designed to imitate. While it will draw the aggression bite it also will scatter a large school of fish in one pass. With the correct gear and several lines out, you can locate a school of Kokanee and limit out in three passes if you don't scatter them!

Lead Core Lines: Lead core lines will only reach to a certain depth depending upon your speed, trolled gear and line diameter. At Kokanee speeds you can probably only hope to reach a depth of 30' maximum no matter how many colors you let out. To test this you will want to find a sandy, gradually sloping bank and troll at speed, closer and closer to the shoreline until you feel the bottom. With a fish finder, which is almost a given for Kokanee you will be able to then determine your effective depth. The Troller's Bible'' Book by Mark Romanack is a great source to understand the depth of any line and lure combination with the effect of water and speed as resistance to depth.

What else would you like to know?
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[Kodiak1]

Don gives you some great advice. Remember, there is a "diminishing returns" factor with lead core. Also, the lure has a surprising effect. When I used to fish for macs with lead core, before the advent of downrigger fishing, I found that when using a large dodger I was significantly shallower than when pulling a large flatfish. Also, the angle of your pole can add/subtract 5'. I like to keep the tip close to the water. But, a short answer to your question..... when fishing for kokes at approx. 1.6, I find myself at approx. 12' with 2 colors, and 15' with 3 colors. I have used Don's technique many times, trolling over some relatively safe sand, and waiting for the lure to catch. Since I fish with 2 downriggers, I like to explore the 10-15- range with the lead core. Good fishing!!! Mike
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[UTExplorer]

MMDon provided a ton of great info on the kokes. I will be using his color selection info, this upcoming season. The general rule of thumb with leaded line states you get a foot a depth for every 2 yards of line your letting out. Each color is 10yrds, so about 5ft per color. His suggestion of using your fish finder and the bottom is probably the most accurate way to tell the depth your fishing.
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[MMDon]

With lead core you can reach another 10' in depth and create more bites by trolling in a zig zag pattern. You will also reach great depths by making turns that stall the line and lure temporarily. Both of these methods will allow the water resistance to lessen against the diameter of the line.

You can also buy keel or trolling weights. I prefer using these weights with swivels on one or both end to using leadcore as you can attach them to any rod and reel set up you are comfortable with trolling with. The nice thing about banana trolling weights is you can buy them in incremental ounce sizes and the fish isn't able to use the drag created by the lead core to pull off the hook. They are much cheaper and you don't fight water resistance to the line diameter as well.
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[idahoron]

MMDON, thanks for the info. How about for trout. I have never trolled for trout but I would like to on Roseworth res here in the Magic Valley area. I am not sure what to use or how to use it. I have drug a Perch colored Rapala and have caught a few on Salmon dam as I am trying for walleye. If a guy is going to target trout what should he do. Thanks Ron
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[MMDon]

Ron,

With trout every body of water has pretty much it's own set of lures or colors that work. The first thing to do when visiting any new body of water is to go to the local tackle shop, gas station, lodge, grocery store or what ever business is located close to the lake and ask what lures generally are working out there. While shallow lakes can be trolled pretty much everywhere, deeper lakes are better trolled along the shore line. Points sticking out in the water will hold good fish but you will want to watch out for the bottom monster.

Once you've found out what the locals fish with the best info I can give you is my trolling speed list.

Don't tell everyone, OK?

These are just starting points. Varying speeds and turning often will greatly improve the strike ratio! Knowing the basics hopefully will help. Sharing your thoughts is welcomed!

Happy Hunting,

Don

DR Lure Speed

Rapala 1.5 to 4.5 Opt. 2.5 to 3.5
Raps (Jointed) 2.2 to 2.5
Raps (Ripping) 4.5 to 5 150 to 200 Setback
Raps (Shad) 2.2 to 2.5
Raps (Husky Jerk) 2.3 to 3
Trophy Sticks (Ripping) 2.9
AC Plug 2.3
Apex 2.2 and up Doc. 2.4 to 3.0
Sting King 1.6 to 2.2 Doc. 2.0 to 2.2
Kwikfish /Flatfish 1.2 to 1.5
Lyman (Erratic) 2.2 to 2.4
J Plug 2.3
Coyotes 2.2 and up
Needlefish 1.4 to 1.9 Perch, Firetiger, Red/Gold?
Spoons 1.2 to 2.5 2-2.5 Pyramid Double Flutters 1.5 to 1.8
Ford Fender/P Martin 1.2 Henry’s
Abe&Als #8or #11/Minnow 1.2 to 1.5 Macs
Abe&Als #11/Squid / Flies 2.2 Salmon
LJ Dodger 3/04/0 Minnow 1.2
Flashers (Salmon) 2.5 to 3
FBR’s and Rotaries 2 to 3
Krok Spoons (Salmon) 3 to 4
Minnow/Dodger 1.1 to 2.2
Dodger/Hoochie Koke .9 to 1.2
Dodger/Spinner Koke 1.1 to 1.3 (Skate Board)
Dodger/Spinner Koke 1.3 to 1.7 (Sling Blade)
1.5 Apex /Sling Blade 1.5 to 1.9 (16 to 18” leader) Nickel Silver, Pink, Green, Should roll over once every 15 seconds

Note: Big Game Trollers use the 150' rule, so if you are 50' down you are 100' back.

Top Line Set Up: 100’ 8-12 Lb. Maxima Green, Leaders 10-15 Lb. Maxima Green with Duolock and Bead Chain on 60” leader.

Top Line Distance: 100’ Top Line Plus 5 full Reel Revolutions.
Salmon: 2.6 to 3.0 MPH Is general place to start.

DR Wire SPECIES VOLTAGE (Protroll)
Chinook (King) Salmon .600 volts
Coho (Silver) Salmon .650 volts
Sockeye Salmon .750 volts
Kokanee Salmon .600 volts (Mine .58)
Halibut .450 volts *
Macs .650 volts
Rainbow & Brown Trout .650 volts
Cutthroat Trout .650 volts

I find these settings to high by .02 to .04 Volts
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[forrest2906]

We trolled for trout last year at salmon falls creek. Usually do it at lucky peak. trolling with the big motor on a bass boat ( I know it looks and sounds funny ) dragging a rapala with a 1/8 or 1/4 ounc weight above a swivel about 2 feet above the rapalla. change the speed, circle, or zigzag to change depth. Color patterns that always work at lucky peak....blue/chrome rapala.....orange/gold rapala. I hae used these at strike also. at salmon falls we used a perch pattern jointed rapala, and could barely keep the trout off the line. just went in a big circle in the same area and caught about a dozen in a couple of hours. I have thought about getting a downrigger for kokes, but catching trout trolling is not that difficult, and the wife can nap till she gets a bite...
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[idahoron]

I got my motor for my toon last year. I trolled with a perch plug many times at SFCR but I always trolled very close to the bank for walleye and never over about 1.1 MPH. I didn't move out deeper for trout. I would like to troll at Roseworth. I have NEVER fished there at all. Every time I have ever drove past there I have never seen anyone in a boat. The F& dumps tons of trout there and I have heard that fish there grow fast. I think it is over looked because of SFCR.
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[2dogs]

Ron, i have fly fished Roseworth in my tube and trolled it in my boat with good success however the fish there do not seem to get as big as SFCR. In my experience a 19" trout is a big one from Roseworth, now I know there are exceptions to the rule but for the most part that seems to hold true but they are fatties there. (watch out for the buzztails)
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[BearLakeFishGuy]

I typically troll u-20 flatfish about 1-6-1.8 mph for trout. The earlier post by Kodiak said this:
"12' with 2 colors, and 15' with 3 colors." I agree 100% with that and let me add. 4 colors 21-23', 5 colors 28-30', six colors 38-42'. Hope that helps.
Scott
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[Fishin208]

Thanks everybody for the excellent information. I will be heading out to lucky peak tomarrow with my father in-law to give it a try. Hopefully a few fish will cooperate with my plans.
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[idahoron]

Does anyone use the ford fender and Beer cans? Do they use wedding rings with them? I have never used any of that stuff. Since the weather is so bad I figure why not talk about stuff I don't do,,, YET[fishon]
Ron
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[MMDon]

I use ford fenders more than the beer can or cow bell style flashers. I prefer to run panther martin spinners or capt. ken's custom tackle worm harnesses rather than wedding rings however.
I generally run them 18 to 24" behind the hardware.

More often I'll even run a willow blade style flasher if I want to troll at a faster speed and still run flashers.
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[curt69]

I use Ford Fenders and Weddingrings . I replace the hook with a #2 Lazer Sharp . On windy days I will troll with just the wind . The rocking of the boat pumps the blades and drives the fish crazy . I use the trolling motor to hold me in the trolling lane . Curt G.
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[lucabrasi]

Don, what a great bunch of knowledge to pass on. You have always given great tips in the past but I have no clue how one would retain so much as you about such details. Dedication and enthusiasm to figure it out for sure.
Holy cow, take the front treble hook off and you will need to speed up just a bit more....but if it's a rebel and not a rapala then you will need to......I knew you know your stuff but that just took it to a new level. Good stuff.
We will make sure and keep it to ourselves and it doesn't get out there.....
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[Kodiak1]

I have a tackle box full of Ford Fenders, and yes, they work great. However, a few years ago, I switched to Jack Lloyds. The term Jack Lloyd has morphed into a generic jackloyds or jackaloyds just as Kleenex has become a generic term. But the original Jack Lloyd is still available. I buy them at Turner's on State Street in Boise. I use the 2-blade in silver. The reason I switched is because, one, they work great, and two, they have significantly less drag than the FF's. The rudder on them is sufficient to prevent spinning and thus line twist. I have had a problem with the small rudders on the kokanee trolls, and have gone to placing a small weight to the hole in the rudder--found on many brands--and thus keeping the rudder in a vertical position. Mike
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[idahoron]

so what are the flashers or ford fenders trying to copy? And what conditions would make a person say today I am using a ford fender or a beer can over a plane rapala or what ever. Man you guys are helping a bunch of us out, THANKS. Ron
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[Kodiak1]

I rarely if ever use flashers with anything but wedding rings and/or bait. I have never used them with spoons, flatfish, or rapalas. I could surmise that they are imitating the flash of a feeding fish, but lets just say they attract fish. Dodgers and flashers (not the flashers we are talking about) also attract, but in addition to that, they provide movement to, say, a herring or hoochie. The dodger swings back and forth, and the flasher makes large rotations. So, if fishing for salmon in salt, or kokanee in fresh water, you wouldn't ever want to drag a hoochie behind trolls. Hoochies, with the exception of the new and very productive Ace Hi Flys, have no movement of their own. Pop gear won't provide that. Dodgers and flashers will. Mike
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[MMDon]

Good points Mike. When pulling stick baits such as Raps I always run them "naked" or without any other attraction.

Basically anything the spins around including gang trolls such as F.Fenders are flashers while a blade that wobbles back and forth without spinning is generally thought of as a dodger. Of course if you pull a dodger to fast it spins around as well.

They make two basic kinds of dodgers for moving or imparting action to a bait. The skateboard style is shaped like an oval race track and works well at speeds up to 1.2 or 1.3 while the sling blade style, much more narrow and elongated is meant for higher speed trolling of 1.4 up to 2 mph.

If you don't have a slower trolling motor and are using the main without a trolling plate you might want to look at sling blade style dodgers for Kokanee.
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