04-07-2011, 07:32 PM
[quote submoa]I think killing off the Walleye and N. Pike is idiotic. I have only read a few of your posts fishrmn, I'm getting the sense that you are a stirrer of the pot when it comes to any fish but trout. Why is that?[/quote]
Because so many of the folks who want to catch trophy pike, or lots of walleyes aren't willing to go where the trophy pike are or where there are lots of walleyes. They want to make Yuba into a trophy pike water. Some think that Deer Creek can be a White Bass fishery. Or that Strawberry would be better off with Smallmouth Bass. They're both bad ideas. With all of the water problems, carp numbers (pike won't put a dent in their numbers) and lack of other forage, Yuba will support some pike, but not be a great pike fishery. If you want a great trophy pike fishing trip, go to Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Canada. That's where the conditions allow for great pike fisheries. Yuba is great right now, but it won't last. There's nothing for the yearling pike to eat. Yuba will crash and rebuild. The crash will happen, but the rebuild will take longer with lots of big pike in the mix. If the number of pike drops, the recovery will be quicker. IF you could eliminate the pike that are now in Yuba and replace them with either Tiger Muskies, or a sterile Northern Pike, then you could have a respectable fishery. But as long as the pike continue to spawn their numbers can't be controlled to balance the forage. Their offspring will eat nearly all of the perch that hatch this spring at Yuba. Again, I'm not advocating getting rid of the walleye or pike in Yuba. It just doesn't work to have more predators that will spawn and reproduce than the prey can support. If there were fewer adult walleye and pike the perch would come back and support more walleye and pike in the future. I think it was Coyotespinner in another thread that mentioned the food pyramid (not the USFDA's) and how it takes so many more prey to support a few predators at the top of the pyramid. You can't build a pyramid from the top down, you have to have the base to support the top end.
The loss of a few Northerns to supply the Tiger Musky program isn't going to hurt Yuba. It's a good thing. The loss of a bunch of walleye that were caught in gill nets isn't going to bring about the demise of the walleye fishery there either.
[quote Bigguyone1]Ok - I have to JUMP in here as I have been communicating with the people that have done the gill netting and people working to manage this fishery. I can PROMISE you that the perch are not the issue.
100% of northerns that were caught in the last gill net study they did that I talked to them about had carp in their stomachs - NOTHING else.[/quote]
Again, the perch are the issue. The pike aren't eating the carp because they want to. They are eating them because they have to. If there were enough perch in Yuba for the pike to use them as a forage species, then they would eat some carp and lots of perch. They aren't eating perch because they've already eaten most of them. Pike evolved to eat perch. They do best where there are perch available. They feed more effectively on perch. If the perch come back in any kind of numbers, you'll see pike eating perch and leaving carp alone. And it's only the really big pike that can utilize the carp. Is anyone catching "hammer handles"? Are the pike growing through their first year? Or are they winding up as food for their parents when they reach 5 or 6 inches while they starve looking for perch to eat?
[quote MR.PIKE]Thats dumb, leave the Northerns so they will help kill carp. Yes the perch #'s are down but I know 100% for sure Northerns will eat carp, I have found them in their bellys. I could go on and on about Yuba Res. for hours but I know it wont do any good. Carp are the real problem, have a commercial fisherman cast some nets and get them gone. Plant some perch, blue gill, crappie, trout by the millions and lets see how things turn out. We might be pleasantly suprised.[/quote]
If it were feasible for commercial fishermen to harvest carp out of Yuba, it would probably already be happening. If it were that easy, I'd suggest that you or one of the others who think it would be so easy, give it a try. Let us know how much money you invest, and how much money you make at carp seining at Yuba. They've planted perch. They've planted trout. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has tried crappie or bluegill in Yuba. There are supposed to be fathead minnows in the Sevier River. Until the crash there won't be much other than a few big pike caught at Yuba. If there are lots of big pike spawning at Yuba the recovery will be a long time coming. Getting your knickers in a knot over a few walleyes dying in a gill net or a couple of big pike being taken for their eggs is missin' the forest while lookin' at the trees.
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Because so many of the folks who want to catch trophy pike, or lots of walleyes aren't willing to go where the trophy pike are or where there are lots of walleyes. They want to make Yuba into a trophy pike water. Some think that Deer Creek can be a White Bass fishery. Or that Strawberry would be better off with Smallmouth Bass. They're both bad ideas. With all of the water problems, carp numbers (pike won't put a dent in their numbers) and lack of other forage, Yuba will support some pike, but not be a great pike fishery. If you want a great trophy pike fishing trip, go to Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Canada. That's where the conditions allow for great pike fisheries. Yuba is great right now, but it won't last. There's nothing for the yearling pike to eat. Yuba will crash and rebuild. The crash will happen, but the rebuild will take longer with lots of big pike in the mix. If the number of pike drops, the recovery will be quicker. IF you could eliminate the pike that are now in Yuba and replace them with either Tiger Muskies, or a sterile Northern Pike, then you could have a respectable fishery. But as long as the pike continue to spawn their numbers can't be controlled to balance the forage. Their offspring will eat nearly all of the perch that hatch this spring at Yuba. Again, I'm not advocating getting rid of the walleye or pike in Yuba. It just doesn't work to have more predators that will spawn and reproduce than the prey can support. If there were fewer adult walleye and pike the perch would come back and support more walleye and pike in the future. I think it was Coyotespinner in another thread that mentioned the food pyramid (not the USFDA's) and how it takes so many more prey to support a few predators at the top of the pyramid. You can't build a pyramid from the top down, you have to have the base to support the top end.
The loss of a few Northerns to supply the Tiger Musky program isn't going to hurt Yuba. It's a good thing. The loss of a bunch of walleye that were caught in gill nets isn't going to bring about the demise of the walleye fishery there either.
[quote Bigguyone1]Ok - I have to JUMP in here as I have been communicating with the people that have done the gill netting and people working to manage this fishery. I can PROMISE you that the perch are not the issue.
100% of northerns that were caught in the last gill net study they did that I talked to them about had carp in their stomachs - NOTHING else.[/quote]
Again, the perch are the issue. The pike aren't eating the carp because they want to. They are eating them because they have to. If there were enough perch in Yuba for the pike to use them as a forage species, then they would eat some carp and lots of perch. They aren't eating perch because they've already eaten most of them. Pike evolved to eat perch. They do best where there are perch available. They feed more effectively on perch. If the perch come back in any kind of numbers, you'll see pike eating perch and leaving carp alone. And it's only the really big pike that can utilize the carp. Is anyone catching "hammer handles"? Are the pike growing through their first year? Or are they winding up as food for their parents when they reach 5 or 6 inches while they starve looking for perch to eat?
[quote MR.PIKE]Thats dumb, leave the Northerns so they will help kill carp. Yes the perch #'s are down but I know 100% for sure Northerns will eat carp, I have found them in their bellys. I could go on and on about Yuba Res. for hours but I know it wont do any good. Carp are the real problem, have a commercial fisherman cast some nets and get them gone. Plant some perch, blue gill, crappie, trout by the millions and lets see how things turn out. We might be pleasantly suprised.[/quote]
If it were feasible for commercial fishermen to harvest carp out of Yuba, it would probably already be happening. If it were that easy, I'd suggest that you or one of the others who think it would be so easy, give it a try. Let us know how much money you invest, and how much money you make at carp seining at Yuba. They've planted perch. They've planted trout. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has tried crappie or bluegill in Yuba. There are supposed to be fathead minnows in the Sevier River. Until the crash there won't be much other than a few big pike caught at Yuba. If there are lots of big pike spawning at Yuba the recovery will be a long time coming. Getting your knickers in a knot over a few walleyes dying in a gill net or a couple of big pike being taken for their eggs is missin' the forest while lookin' at the trees.
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