05-18-2004, 10:07 AM
[size 2]Ok,, I guess it time to actually clear some air, and add my 2 cent. But hey, its all good..
First allow me to state that I agree Danzilla. Complete power corrupts completely... Truer words can not be spoken!
Next allow me to say I dont entirely disagree with what your saying FishMagnet. We as a nation must support our guys and gals in harms way. Whats more I truley believe they know they have all of our support and hopes that each will return home. Father more, it prides me greatly to see the support our troops are give now during these recent conflicts unlike the late 60's and early 70's.
((Ha!,, Yes BLM I know, again I'm aging myself, crap!))
"[/size][font "Times New Roman"][size 3]It's a common tactic of the political Left that if you don't like the message then slander the messenger.".. [/size][/font][font "Arial"][size 2]
So true, and a perfect example of whats taking place by accusing others of supporting terrorism simply because they dont stand beside Bush and his every whim. Yet slandering the out spoken could be seen as a mild touch compared to the slauder of them do to McCarthyism. Dont be mistaken in believing that any of us that dont totally buy into Bush, support terrorism. We proudly stand with our brave troops fighting the battle. Whats more,, let me remind you that this is an election year. Mud is, and will be, tossed back and forth. Its anything and everything but a oneway street. Personally,, I think all policians are crooks.. They'll happily kiss your baby one minute, then steal its sucker the instant you turn your back.
"A simple question to ask yourself is who do you think Bin Laden wants to win?"[/size][/font]
[font "Arial"][size 2]Truth be known,, I dont think Bin Laden (if he survives) cares who wins this up coming election. I dont believe his battle is with Bush persay, but instead with what this nation stands for. Whether our next leader is Bush, Kerry, or my dead and rotting black lab in the ground,, I would hope Bin Laden understands that this war will continue and that the American public will continue to support the "war on terrorism" as well as our fighting men and women. But in either case,, he will lose this battle as will anyone willing to step on our toes or harm Americans. [/size][/font]
[font "Arial"][size 2]Its a funny thing, America has been call the great melting pot,, witch is quite right. Its all of its great cultures that have created the grand country in witch we live. And while we might squabble amongst ourselves from time to time we're still liking that of a big family. We can fight with each other and bloody each others noses and thats OK. But an outsider hadnt better try and poke his fist in, he'll merely draw back a bloody stump because we all came at him at once and took a bite.[/size][/font][font "Times New Roman"]
[/font][size 2]
As far as Bush. Plain and simple, I have a problem with any leader (here or abroad) that leans against his podium, thousands of miles from the war front, while smuggly boasting of his victories as his troops charge bravely down the barrel of a rifle. I know its merely wishfull thinking on my part,, but if war must take place I'd perfer those in control actually stand on the battle field shoulder to shoulder with me, my son, or grandsons, and spilling their own blood also for their causes. Or better yet, I think we should simply stand both leaders face to face, hand them each and axe handle,, and let beat each others brains out! (And of course,, I use the term brains lightly). After all, no matter who won the battle the rest of us would be sure winners. In the end theres atleast one less politician to deal with on this planet, and the other one really wouldnt amount to crap either. But I suppose as with all good things, like raw eggs in my beer,, brave leaders are things of the past and will remain so. But being the old fart I am, I can take great pleasure in the knowledge that I have seen those believing themselves as great and grand come and go like so much "dust in the wind", (forgive the catch phrase, and pun). And know this, I'm including those leaders around the world hiding in their deep dark holes as well as in the white house with their fingers on the buttom like those of the passed. If history as given us anything,, its given us the knowledge of rule 1, things will change, and rule 2, that at no time will every one see things the same. But hey, thats OK. For without such change and/or disagreements, and the ability to voice our opinions, we as a nation of freely thinking people become as stale as last weeks dinner roll. Its our willingness to be heard when we feel an unjustice is taking place that makes this nation the best and maintain its constant on going policy of checks and balances. For without our opinions and willingness to state them openly we has a nation end up falling into an endless downward spiral like we now seeing taking place in the Middle East and many other places on this planet. Personally, between you, I, and the fence post, I enjoy having the right to speak my opinion rather than having someone else tell me what to think, what to say, where to crap, and how high..
As far as your question FM, the truth is, I dont believe there is one pure and simply answer to it. Some would tell you it would have been better to have waited for more proof, while others will tell you we did as we should have by rush in, kickin ass, taking names, cutting off the head of the snake, and letting the cards fall as they may. Simply put, the responses could be endless and mind blowing. But the problem with both or any answers to your question is it will come to you by way of a human mind. My thoughts are,, and as I stated, he probably did have weapons of mass distruction,, and was without doubt involved in the support of terrorism. Did we do the right thing by removing him from power? I believe that answer is YES! Should the man find his fate to be that of his son's? Again I say, YES! And hand me the axe handle.
But, there are far more ways to cut off the head of a snake than to putting the entire shovel at risk, if you catch my drift. Be it right or wrong the world has the power/funds to back those who would step in and snuff out those it see's as a problem. So the real question should be, would the world but more importantly the American public, have given support to such action? Maybe yes, maybe no. Personally,, I dont give a rats butt what the rest of the world thinks of me, us as a nation, or our policies. We as a nation can very well stand on our own and basically have for well over 200 years. But an American public leader must be will to except the Americans point of veiws. It must be carefully taken into consideration where our lives and captial are being spent and that includes all Americans voices whether he, our leader, agrees with their thoughts or other wise. To use such a tactic as accusing those that dont support him and his causes as supporters of terrorism is no less than McCarthyism in itself, and as I see it, the purest form of dictatorship. Would we have chosen war at that time? Personally I think the answer to that question and the vote of the nation as a whole would been, yes. But we as a nation of clear thinking people weren't given a opportunity to voice for ourselves where this war is concerned. Our leader said we go so we went, its was that simple. Could we have been asked? Sure enough,, and
ly the proof takes place each week on American Idol. But hey,, thats merely my opinion. Btw, who's on the outs this coming week?? Ha!
As far as the use of McCarthyism (note my correction in spelling) as a way to scare the American public and to squelch their voices concerning this war, or any other subject matter that dont see eye to eye with Bush and his policies as far as that goes. This nation has seen the days when anyone could have been accused, arrested, and put on trial as a trouble maker because another person claimed that person wasnt a true American merely because they happen to speak out against what they seen as an unjustice. It all sorta reminded me of the witch hunts andly the out come was much better. However,, luckly, we'd banned burning at the stake by the time of McCarthyism.. You being a freedom loving outspoken good American (as I am) have to know that those tackics are as wrong today has they were when in practice. I truely hope we as a nation have grown well beyond such childish stunts..
OK..
It was a good debate and time well spent, but its time to get back to fishing.. Oh and by the way,, I suggest we all try and hook one for the troops this week..
Btw,, did I topped me old pal Pat for the longest winded post yet? Probably not. HA![/size]
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First allow me to state that I agree Danzilla. Complete power corrupts completely... Truer words can not be spoken!
Next allow me to say I dont entirely disagree with what your saying FishMagnet. We as a nation must support our guys and gals in harms way. Whats more I truley believe they know they have all of our support and hopes that each will return home. Father more, it prides me greatly to see the support our troops are give now during these recent conflicts unlike the late 60's and early 70's.
((Ha!,, Yes BLM I know, again I'm aging myself, crap!))
"[/size][font "Times New Roman"][size 3]It's a common tactic of the political Left that if you don't like the message then slander the messenger.".. [/size][/font][font "Arial"][size 2]
So true, and a perfect example of whats taking place by accusing others of supporting terrorism simply because they dont stand beside Bush and his every whim. Yet slandering the out spoken could be seen as a mild touch compared to the slauder of them do to McCarthyism. Dont be mistaken in believing that any of us that dont totally buy into Bush, support terrorism. We proudly stand with our brave troops fighting the battle. Whats more,, let me remind you that this is an election year. Mud is, and will be, tossed back and forth. Its anything and everything but a oneway street. Personally,, I think all policians are crooks.. They'll happily kiss your baby one minute, then steal its sucker the instant you turn your back.
"A simple question to ask yourself is who do you think Bin Laden wants to win?"[/size][/font]
[font "Arial"][size 2]Truth be known,, I dont think Bin Laden (if he survives) cares who wins this up coming election. I dont believe his battle is with Bush persay, but instead with what this nation stands for. Whether our next leader is Bush, Kerry, or my dead and rotting black lab in the ground,, I would hope Bin Laden understands that this war will continue and that the American public will continue to support the "war on terrorism" as well as our fighting men and women. But in either case,, he will lose this battle as will anyone willing to step on our toes or harm Americans. [/size][/font]
[font "Arial"][size 2]Its a funny thing, America has been call the great melting pot,, witch is quite right. Its all of its great cultures that have created the grand country in witch we live. And while we might squabble amongst ourselves from time to time we're still liking that of a big family. We can fight with each other and bloody each others noses and thats OK. But an outsider hadnt better try and poke his fist in, he'll merely draw back a bloody stump because we all came at him at once and took a bite.[/size][/font][font "Times New Roman"]
[/font][size 2]
As far as Bush. Plain and simple, I have a problem with any leader (here or abroad) that leans against his podium, thousands of miles from the war front, while smuggly boasting of his victories as his troops charge bravely down the barrel of a rifle. I know its merely wishfull thinking on my part,, but if war must take place I'd perfer those in control actually stand on the battle field shoulder to shoulder with me, my son, or grandsons, and spilling their own blood also for their causes. Or better yet, I think we should simply stand both leaders face to face, hand them each and axe handle,, and let beat each others brains out! (And of course,, I use the term brains lightly). After all, no matter who won the battle the rest of us would be sure winners. In the end theres atleast one less politician to deal with on this planet, and the other one really wouldnt amount to crap either. But I suppose as with all good things, like raw eggs in my beer,, brave leaders are things of the past and will remain so. But being the old fart I am, I can take great pleasure in the knowledge that I have seen those believing themselves as great and grand come and go like so much "dust in the wind", (forgive the catch phrase, and pun). And know this, I'm including those leaders around the world hiding in their deep dark holes as well as in the white house with their fingers on the buttom like those of the passed. If history as given us anything,, its given us the knowledge of rule 1, things will change, and rule 2, that at no time will every one see things the same. But hey, thats OK. For without such change and/or disagreements, and the ability to voice our opinions, we as a nation of freely thinking people become as stale as last weeks dinner roll. Its our willingness to be heard when we feel an unjustice is taking place that makes this nation the best and maintain its constant on going policy of checks and balances. For without our opinions and willingness to state them openly we has a nation end up falling into an endless downward spiral like we now seeing taking place in the Middle East and many other places on this planet. Personally, between you, I, and the fence post, I enjoy having the right to speak my opinion rather than having someone else tell me what to think, what to say, where to crap, and how high..
As far as your question FM, the truth is, I dont believe there is one pure and simply answer to it. Some would tell you it would have been better to have waited for more proof, while others will tell you we did as we should have by rush in, kickin ass, taking names, cutting off the head of the snake, and letting the cards fall as they may. Simply put, the responses could be endless and mind blowing. But the problem with both or any answers to your question is it will come to you by way of a human mind. My thoughts are,, and as I stated, he probably did have weapons of mass distruction,, and was without doubt involved in the support of terrorism. Did we do the right thing by removing him from power? I believe that answer is YES! Should the man find his fate to be that of his son's? Again I say, YES! And hand me the axe handle.
But, there are far more ways to cut off the head of a snake than to putting the entire shovel at risk, if you catch my drift. Be it right or wrong the world has the power/funds to back those who would step in and snuff out those it see's as a problem. So the real question should be, would the world but more importantly the American public, have given support to such action? Maybe yes, maybe no. Personally,, I dont give a rats butt what the rest of the world thinks of me, us as a nation, or our policies. We as a nation can very well stand on our own and basically have for well over 200 years. But an American public leader must be will to except the Americans point of veiws. It must be carefully taken into consideration where our lives and captial are being spent and that includes all Americans voices whether he, our leader, agrees with their thoughts or other wise. To use such a tactic as accusing those that dont support him and his causes as supporters of terrorism is no less than McCarthyism in itself, and as I see it, the purest form of dictatorship. Would we have chosen war at that time? Personally I think the answer to that question and the vote of the nation as a whole would been, yes. But we as a nation of clear thinking people weren't given a opportunity to voice for ourselves where this war is concerned. Our leader said we go so we went, its was that simple. Could we have been asked? Sure enough,, and
ly the proof takes place each week on American Idol. But hey,, thats merely my opinion. Btw, who's on the outs this coming week?? Ha! As far as the use of McCarthyism (note my correction in spelling) as a way to scare the American public and to squelch their voices concerning this war, or any other subject matter that dont see eye to eye with Bush and his policies as far as that goes. This nation has seen the days when anyone could have been accused, arrested, and put on trial as a trouble maker because another person claimed that person wasnt a true American merely because they happen to speak out against what they seen as an unjustice. It all sorta reminded me of the witch hunts and
ly the out come was much better. However,, luckly, we'd banned burning at the stake by the time of McCarthyism.. You being a freedom loving outspoken good American (as I am) have to know that those tackics are as wrong today has they were when in practice. I truely hope we as a nation have grown well beyond such childish stunts.. OK..
It was a good debate and time well spent, but its time to get back to fishing.. Oh and by the way,, I suggest we all try and hook one for the troops this week..
Btw,, did I topped me old pal Pat for the longest winded post yet? Probably not. HA![/size]
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