Utah Premium Member board

[MasterDaad]

Who asked for the secret area?

Blame me. I asked for it.

The Mods put up a request for improvements to BTF and I asked for a place I could post detailed fishing reports for those who contribute to the forum without the traffic of lurkers who contribute nothing.

Several others agreed with my request for the board and the mods graciously granted our request.

This was strictly a MEMBER driven activity. The Mods responded to OUR request.

I, for one, do not get the "lurker" mentality. I signed up for the board and started posting the day I found it. It is true I asked more questions than I answered early on, but I started contributing from Day One.

So forgive me if I personally do not have much sympathy for lurkers. I don't believe in taking without giving back.
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[remo_5_0]

I am all for the new board, keeps the lurkers at bay.
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[Old_Coot]

At risk of losing my own membership on the Premium board, I will say that I am not in favor of it for the many reasons posted here. And, as has been mentioned MANY times, one of the ways to fix the "lurker" problem (or at least improve it greatly) would be to make this Utah board a member's only board. But that will never happen because the reason this board exists is NOT for the fishermen (sorry to hurt your tender feelings boys). This board exists for the high number of hits that can be billed to its many advertisers. The higher numbers of hits, the more money the owners of BFT make ... plain and simple. Hence, the more lurkers, the better (for BFT business). So, if they ain't going to fix the lurking problem (i.e. reduce their income), one alternative is to create a private board. And if the private board wasn't restricted and was open to everyone, then everyone would join it and the lurker money would go away. So access to the private board has to be restricted. Think of it this way; if you got to have problems in life, this is a pretty cool problem to have.
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[submoa]

I've got over 1200 posts on here, but am considered a lurker. You have under 700 and are not? If you put something on line and think that it's not going to be bombed with fisherman, private or public, you are wrong.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Yeah. Beware the lurker.

[inline tumblr_static_lurkerinabox.png]

I'm guessing that if it were possible to survey all active members we would find that a high percentage were once "lurkers"...folks who were leery of jumping into joining a website and being beat up like they are in so many of them.

There is a downside of course. When too much sensitive info is disclosed on an open forum it can (as has) contribute to undue pressure where more pressure is not needed.

But is the solution to totally exclude everybody who is not an active participating member...or potential member...instead of being more careful in posting details?
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[remo_5_0]

I doubt there are 5k people just scared to jump into the forum Pat, the lurking is out of hand, I still post plenty in the open forum. The OP has 2290 views...come on! If it was a fishing report there would be twice that many.
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[wyoguy]

you say

"I am very much in favor of lowering the "admissions" standard to the board to include any who proactively [/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b]contribute[/b] to the fishing experience."

I would bet the majority of members on this forum are younger people with young families, working at least one job 5 days a week. the idea that they can go fishing and write a report once a week is ridiculous. They have family obligations, financial issues and other priorities, just as we did. That doesn't mean they don't love to fish as much as we do. I have been on this site a little over 4 years I think, and feel like I have contributed something. Answered every PM, give any info asked of me including GPS coordinates, many times to the people who are now shunning us as non contributors.
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Me and many like me have been lumped in with the dreaded lurkers. I and many others have avoided them via the PM with things we didn't want to share.

You say;

"I will not post any more of my fishing location reports on the open board so that my places get overrun by those who add nothing in return"

Nor will I. There is no sense in reasoning with unreasonable men. I mean no disrespect to you personally or any others, but I will not share my meager knowelge with those who refuse to share with me.
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[flygoddess]

[quote remo_5_0]I doubt there are 5k people just scared to jump into the forum Pat, the lurking is out of hand, I still post plenty in the open forum. The OP has 2290 views...come on! If it was a fishing report there would be twice that many.[/quote]


Where the heck is that "LIKE" key! I am in favor of the "elitist" forum...no surprise I am sure[]. Sorry, I do not wish to share with everyone, but maybe a select few. What's wrong with that?
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[remo_5_0]

I have no problem sharing and many a PM has been met with a lot of info either from me or to me, but like FG I am not posting too much info on the open forum anymore, not like I have that much info. Anyway though.
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[riverdog]

"My twin posted a few pics of brown trout on a beach, no backgrounds. A few replies mention trying night fishing for browns with red headlamps. A few more replies later and its mentioned that the weber is the place to try that. The next day at a department store a guy asks for help to find red headlamps, and my twin asks, "by chance did you read BFT?" Why yes he did. He claimed he was headed there that night to try, so did my twin.

So how many other department stores did other people buy red headlamps, and head out to the weber that night, that week, that month? It's mind boggling how many probably did!! Sure enough that guy got a 24 inch brown that night, my twin got skunked."

Give me a break. People have been using lanterns to fish by at night for thousands of years. Somewhere way before you were born people started using black and red fishing lights. For what it's worth fluorescent green LEED lights outperform red lights quite handily in both salt and fresh water as well as under ice. Hardly a secret when it's all been done for decades by many. Second I've seen fish surveys were they find a brown over 25 inches every hundred yards on the lower Weber. Seriously I've caught bigger fish than that on back to back casts on the Weber. I'm forgetting his name but he'd show dozens of 24-28 inch browns he had to wade through to catch a brown over 30 inches on the Weber. Just how many fish do you think they're are in Utah? I'll bet it way over a hundred million. I have caught a hundred pounds of trout in a 1-2 miles stretch on a small stream maybe a fifth the size of the Weber in a few hours in Utah probable a dozen times a year for the last 10 years. If you're twin got skunked it wasn't because some guy caught the last medium size brown on the Weber while using a red light that night.
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[Old_Coot]

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[remo_5_0]

To be fair Paul, you don't name your streams for all the lurkers [laugh] now, I would name the Weeb or Provo in any of my reports because who cares.
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[MasterDaad]

Hi Submoa --

I'm in because I requested the forum in the first place. I think the only reason I am in and you are not is because I asked and perhaps you didn't?

Also, many of my posts are in fact fishing reports and discussions of my fishing reports.

Pat -- Why can we have a place to put details we'd like to share with those who are helping AND a place for fewer details?

I certainly remain active and posting reports on the general forum as well.
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[DKStroutfitter]

I have had mixed feelings about a members only forum.
When I was a Mod on another site, we had one. It worked well for most members but there were a few that didn't understand the concept of a board that everyone could not see.
I like the idea of a forum that only members can visit. It keeps the lurkers out and makes the members feel a little bit better about discussing sensitive waters and tactics.

I do feel that the requirements to get into the members only forum are too tight.
Others like it the was it is.
A forum that all members can't visit will always be controversial.
It's simply the nature of the beast.
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[remo_5_0]

[quote 123qwe]i dont ever remember members asking to be excluded? do you? so i say make a lurker form that only us "lurkers" can get on and not your elite. then we will see who posts more reports i am willing to bet the so called lurkers do. most of the people that have 2000 post got there by just posting to others reports "nice report" or just "thanks"[/quote]

Here is a perfect case, this guy uses his first post to get @ss bent that he can't read the prime reports.
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[Troll]

[quote Ktrout]


I'm not entirely sure that someone who never posts fishing reports is the best person to decide what is best for BFT. I am not fighting to keep or get rid of the other forum, but someone that doesn't post fishing reports and has been around for years has little skin in this game.[/quote]

I'm not going to read any farther on this post, I get the gist of where it is going.
I've been a member of BFT for a long time, maybe to long. (10 years) I've been to gatherings, donated tackle, donated food, I've given pages of advise, I've helped when I could.
I've also been hammered, last time a few years ago when I drove past Pineview early ice and posted that there was fishing in the narrows. Three days later it was all my fault that people were fishing the narrows and I had ruined the early season fishing. That was how I was treated after 8 years and 2500 posts.
I've probably posted less than 100 times in the 2 years since. I still fish, a lot, but I don't post a lot.
I've had posts get 3,000 views and 3 replies. I'm not into that at all.

If finding out what we are talking about over on the Preferred board matters to you, fish, post about it and you will get to be a part of it.
Being a member over there does not come without it's own commitments, it's not a free for all, you have to post at least one report a month, which some times of year you may have to make a special trip just to keep up. If you open a thread, you are committing to post a reply to that person. Those are the rules. Rules designed to make it an active board of people who are willing to post and comment on posts of others. The main boards are not like that, you can lurk, you don't have to post and you don't have to reply to posts you read.
I think it is good that BFT prefers people who are active and post rather than just read others reports, and now they have a place to call their own.
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[crappielover89]

[quote TyeDyeTwins]"

The bolded material is what I really want to address. I do view the posts our members make on BFT every day on almost every Utah forum....hence the job of mod right?

I think you are taking things too personally. I never said people are no longer worthy. I stated that sometimes I needed a place to post up where the masses won't see. That isn't because of the worthy-ness of the public, its the simple understanding of what happens when a person decides to post up about somewhere, and then watches as the place goes to hell for doing so. Once bitten, twice as shy man.
Without the premium the report would never be posted, and no one would be able to enjoy it at all.[/quote]

if you needed a privet space you should create a blog or email your friends and leave the public board public and not have privet boards on a public web sight
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[RockyRaab]

I've made my feelings known about the private forum. I'd like to address the "views vs replies" issue.

Frankly, I do not understand why someone would get their knickers twisted because their post doesn't get a bazillion replies. Most of the posts I read here don't deserve a reply, or I have no useful information to add, or I can't answer the question.

What should I do? Reply with some inane and useless comment? Why? To stroke the ego of the poster? Or should I correct the poster's grammar? That seems to generate a shirtload of additional replies so perhaps that's the ideal course of action.

As I understand it, in the private forum, each person is required to post and is required to reply to every single post he/she reads. If I were a member there, I think I'd reply with a grammar correction.
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[dtayboyz]

I'd never spend my advertising dollar on a private forum, I'd be looking for mass exposure. Amazing there are 3 pages on this topic
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Okay...bad form to reply to yourself. Just don't want to risk offending anybody else. I'm already offensive enough.

When asked for my input on the "secret" forum, I simply stated that I was not in favor. I do like the idea of having a "filter" to reduce the number of "lurkers" who take without giving back. But that same filter also shuts out a whole lot of others who simply enjoy reading our posts and do not mass up and go ruin our fishing holes. Many of them have the potential to join up and become valuable contributing members.

I get in a fair amount of fishing each year. And because of my avatar pic and my numerous posts with pictures of my tricked out float tube I am quite recognizable on the water. This has resulted in a lot of introductions...from folks who recognize me even though I don't know them. A high percentage of these folks admit that they are either not registered members of BFT or that even though they are registered they do not post much...if at all. Almost universally they say how much they enjoy our forum and how it has helped them to become better anglers. What's wrong with that?

As I have said before, there are a lot of our members who "hung out" on BFT for a while before registering. Unless they had the opportunity to see how "friendly" we are and how much we shared they would have never jumped in.

It would be silly to suggest that our reports have never resulted in increased pressure on specific spots. But it is equally vain and silly to take full responsibility for ALL the pressure on the hot spots. Our local outdoors TV programs, Info boards at tackle outlets and many other fishing report sources are equally to blame...if not more.

And don't overlook the "networks". There are groups and organizations of anglers who quickly pass along hot tips to others in their groups via cellphone and the social media. I have witnessed what can happen overnight to a spot that suddenly started producing...without any BFT reports or publication on other sources. One day you are fishing "almost alone"...and catching fish. You come back the next day and you can't find a spot to fish...and everybody crowding you out seems to know each other.

I am one of the early members on BFT. I have seen it evolve from a few chest-thumping guys who almost exclusively fished Bear Lake or Willard Bay. As others came aboard and the species, tackle and techniques discussions expanded into wider and wider areas, more and more anglers found BFT to be a good place to hang out. And whether by accident or design it has mostly been a good place for newbies to ask questions that have been asked many times before...without being blasted off the boards. And these newbies have often morphed into more knowledgeable and experienced anglers who paid it forward by helping newer newbies.

So...getting back to the point...my initial gut feeling is that once we start dividing up the membership and keeping the kids and the "riff-raff" away from the big folks table we are going to ruin the overall ambiance it took us years to build.

This was not my feeling alone. I have been in some face to face discussions and have had a lot of PMs from other long-term BFTers. It has not been my goal or personal agenda to discredit the new board or to in any way contribute to its failure. But there are a whole lot of "foundation folks" on this board who are either not in favor or who are reserving judgement until it proves itself. Some have chimed in. Many have not.

Many on this board were here when a BFT member jumped ship and started a competitive forum. It was hailed as a place where you could use profanity and pretty much do whatever you wanted. An obvious poke at the moralistic rules established by BFT. You wouldn't believe how many PMs I got from BFT members telling me that BFT was doomed and that "everybody" was leaving to go to the new board. The only problem was that all the posts on that board were BFT bashing and telling each other how great the new board was. Nobody was posting any good fishing info. So everybody quietly sneaked back into BFT and that board died an inglorious death.

Ever hear of the "divide and conquer" philosophy of war? Could happen.
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