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+--- Thread: float for steel (/showthread.php?tid=30000)
float for steel - stormy26 - 02-25-2003
I'm from Michigan and is thinking of tring to try a float tube. I have never used one, but concerding in tring one out. I was wondering how it may work on the big Manistee river or the P.M. for spring steelhead and fall salmon. Has any one tried this. I'm open for suggestions for a good river float tube.
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Re: [stormy26] float for steel - TubeDude - 02-25-2003
[cool]Hey stormy26. Welcome to the float tubing forum. If you want to try using a tube, 'toon or kickboat for those lovely salmonids, go for it. As I recall, most of the better water on those rivers is in the lower stretches, where there is often not a lot of heavy current. My knowledge of them is mostly what I have gleaned from watching fishing shows on the area, but I can recall thinking on some programs that I could do some serious damage if I had the chance to launch my donut dinghy back there.
I have fished extensively for both steelhead and salmon on the west coast, from northern California to the Puget Sound in Washington. Wherever you can launch and beach your craft safely...and avoid fast shallow water...you have tubing potential. Don't plan to fish the rivers when they are running high and fast...or if there are lots of rocks, overhanging trees, low bridges or other obstacles that could grab and hold you.
Tubes and kickboats are ideal for being able to float down into areas not easily accessible to bank anglers, or too deep for wading fishermen to get to efficiently. Some of my best west coast fishing was in "tidewater" regions of the lower rivers, where they were more like lakes than rivers. I could launch and beach within a few feet of my vehicle, move around out in the fish holding areas beyond reach of shore fishermen, and be all alone casting to active fish that were unaffected by my quiet approach.
I suspect you would like some specific recommendations for type of craft, etc. I'll be glad to help, but I can be more helpful if you will post the answers to the following questions: (1) How big are you physically? (2) Will you need to carry your craft any distance to launch it? (3) How big is your fishing vehicle? (4) What kind of tackle do you prefer (fly/spinning/casting)? (5) Will you be drifting a length of a river, or staying in one slack water area? (6) Will you be using your choice of flotation systems for any other kinds of fishing...like bass or walleye?
If you are already an accomplished angler, you will find that going afloat will increase your opportunities and accelerate your knowledge of the sport. If you don't already know enough to catch steelhead and salmon from the bank or a boat, you will be just as frustrated from a tube.
One of the key advantages of flotation fishing is that it allows you to get "up close and personal" with your quarry. Instead of having to battle those long noodle rods, to cast long distances and miss a lot of takes because of lack of "touch", you can make shorter and more controlled casts and drifts. You feel the bites better and can make more positive hooksets. Then, you can take a ride downstream if you need to follow a big one. Steelheads tend to be more flashy and stay closer to the hole from which they were hooked. Big salmon, on the other hand, can turn around and run clear back out into the lake...pulling you behind them. They are strong and they can strip a reel full of light line on their long runs.
I have enjoyed some great action on drifting bait or flies down through a run, by positioning my tube in the slack water off to the side and then casting at an angle upstream and letting the offering work down through the holding area. I have also done well by backtrolling and bottom bouncing downstream in a modest current. This requires good physical conditioning and good big fins.
Round tubes, Uboats and minipontoons will all work okay in slow, deeper rivers. However, if you plan to run several miles, through fast water stretches with shallows, I would recommend a pontoon craft that features above water seating, and maybe even oars for maneuvering. If your lower extremities sit too low in the water, you are at risk for painful and/or dangerous encounters with shallow rocks or logs. And, you should never try to stand up in your craft in shallow moving water. It is difficult to maintain balance when the current is trying to pull your legs out from under you.
Fill us in with a few more details of what your plans are and I'm sure you can get some good input. As you will soon discover, it is not as simple as the newcomer might believe. But, mastering the fundamentals can be both fun and rewarding.
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Re: [stormy26] float for steel - JapanRon - 02-25-2003
Hey there Stormy26,
I guess your talking about the Big Manistee and the Pere Marquette. TubeDude's input pretty much answered your question.
I don't know how many and what rating any rapids might have along those 180-some miles but there should be a lot of info if from no where else but the many float trip outfits that work the river. I assume the water level would be higher during the early steelhead season and that's a factor in making sure you have an adequate (PFD) personal floatation device. You ought to consider a CG class II or I for the river. After the tube that's the second thing you should buy!
That river can be pretty narrow in spots. 100-120 foot wide put-in spots sound pretty narrow to me at peak season. I hope you read up on river-float manners and common problems. Some rivers are a battle ground with the outfitters/guides, individual floaters and the shore fishermen tearing at each other tooth and nail. Everyone thinks they're right in this one.
Some rivers have banned or limited the number of free floaters and outfitters from a legal, political, and ecological perspective.
Even with good intentions, I've blundered into something that, upon reflection, if I had used everybodys common sense I'd not have ruffled any feathers. It only takes one guy to start screaming like an idiot and destroy, for a time, the peace we seek in fishing.
JapanRon
a.k.a.tsurikichi
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Re: [TubeDude] float for steel - stormy26 - 02-26-2003
I'm about 200 lbs at 6 foot tall
I drive a van but sometimes we take my buddies truck.
For walking distance it may be up to a mile.
Drift down the river for that mile to find fish.
I fish for Bass, durning the summer.
salmon in the fall
steelhead in the spring
trout in spring/summer
It's about a 50/50 in which I would use(fly rod/Spinng reel)
For the Steelhead and salmon I have been using my noodle rod but I was hoping I can get closer to the fish with a float tube. Do they take a long time to blow up? Can i carry it threw the woods to the river and then blow them up?
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Re: [stormy26] float for steel - TubeDude - 02-26-2003
[cool]Since you are not over 200#, you can probably float comfortably in almost any craft made. My XXL proportions require that I look for the larger models with higher floatation ratings.
The question will be whether you want a round tube, a Uboat or mini-pontoon. For a combination of light weight and portability, a round tube with a vinyl or urethane bladder...rather than an inner tube...will fill the bill. This is the choice of backpackers. It can be carried in a pack...deflated...and quickly aired up with the "Boston" valves and a bit of lung power. Many models either come with pack straps, or they can be easily fashioned with some webbing. These will allow you to carry your craft inflated and to get launched more quickly when you hit the water.
I have fished many locations that required a substantial trek between my parked vehicle and my launch site. With a round tube, I find it easy to carry them, "hands free", by balancing them on my head. They are not heavy, but you need to make sure the tackle, etc. is distributed evenly to insure a good balance on your head.
A "traditional" float tube relies on a truck tire inner tube for an air chamber. I prefer them. They are a pound or so heavier than the vinyl bladder models, but they have slightly more puncture resistance. I also prefer the traditional air valves, rather than the boston valves. The latter seem to wear a bit and are prone to losing air or popping open. Not good when you are not in close proximity to the safety of a friendly shoreline.
Uboats are easier to get in and out of than round tubes. However, they usually rely on a "stabilizer" bar to keep the two ends from pulling together with the angler sits down on the seat. But, for the ability to launch more easily, especially in spots with difficult bottom (sticky mud, rocks, etc.), they are better for some folks. Most are light enough to transport long distances without too much strain.
After that you have the "mini-pontoons" and kick boats. These have the dual air chambers of larger pontoons, but are of a size and weight closer to tubes and Uboats. I have just finished about two years in a Kennebec, including many medium to long hikes to my launch sites, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't like the aforementioned Boston valves, on the air chambers, and I found the tackle pockets too narrow to accomodate some of the wider plastic tackle boxes I like. I also had my grievances with the stabilizer bars. But, all in all, a good all around tube for $149. What I probably liked best about the Kennebec...after years in standard tubes and Uboats, was the elevated seating. The seat keeps you right about on the waterline, instead of being submerged to the waist as in most float tubes.
If you look around, there are some really great new small pontoon rigs available these days. The true pontoon craft usually features some kind of rigid frame and may come with optional oars, to help navigate moving water, to get to and from distant fishing spots easier, and to enable you to troll better than with fin power alone. The main thing I dislike about the oars is that they can get in the way...especially when you are waving the fairy wand...with loose loops of lly line just waiting to catch on anything that protrudes into its path.
A van or truck should handle any craft you decide upon...fully inflated and ready to go. I usually take my GMC Jimmy and it holds two Kennebecs in their full upright and locked positions...plus rods, tackle, ice chests...and of course a fishing buddy (usually Mrs. Dude...Tube Babe).
Whatever you choose, let me know and I can suggest how to rig up a rod rack and the other accessories to enable you to go afloat with a good selection of gear. And, while noodle rods are vital for shore fishing or wading...for casting and line control...you can drop down to a good medium light 7 foot spin stick, with a fast tip. And, one thing you will discover quickly, you don't want a long butt section on rods you use in a float tube. They tend to keep banging on your body and getting caught in your vest or other gear. I make all my own rods and I usually shorten my handles by a couple of inches.
Don't know if that covers everything (Ha Ha...it's just the beginning). If you like, I can put up some links for online tube purveyors that you can use for some companative shopping and get some ideas as to the options available...and the prices. I'll be happy to render an opinion on any specific model that captures your attention.
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Re: [TubeDude] float for steel - stormy26 - 02-26-2003
Thanks for all the info.
I will be checking out float tubes for the next couple of weeks on line. I 'm looking to spend $150.00 on one but not much more because I have never tried one and don't know how I'm going to like it. Any info on where to find one other then Bass pro shops, plus pricing will be very helpfull.
Thanks again for all your help.
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Re: [stormy26] float for steel - TubeDude - 02-26-2003
[cool] You should be able to get a decent craft for the $150 budget...one that you can get years of good use from. There is usually a ready market for used craft too, when more experienced tubers want to upgrade and newbies are looking for a deal. You get a better resale value on float craft than on used computers...and they are less temperamental too.
If you want to spend some time on the net, getting educated and comparing prices, here are some of the links to sites I visit regularly. These include both online dealers and the manufacturers themselves. Have fun.
[url "http://www.thefloattubestore.com/"][#800080]http://www.thefloattubestore.com/[/#800080][/url] THE FLOAT TUBE STORE
[url "http://store.riverwire.com/cgi-bin/wfp79588.storefront/3e5cd5f40049964a2750d8f5a5020674/Catalog/1607"][#800080]http://store.riverwire.com/cgi-bin/wfp79588.storefront/3e5cd5f40049964a2750d8f5a5020674/Catalog/1607[/#800080][/url] RiverWire
[url "http://www.waterskeeter.com/"][#800080]http://www.waterskeeter.com/[/#800080][/url] Water Skeeter
[url "http://www.caddis.com/"][#800080]http://www.caddis.com/[/#800080][/url] Caddis
[url "http://www.creekcompany.com/"][#800080]http://www.creekcompany.com[/#800080][/url] Creek Company
[url "http://www.outcastboats.com/"][#800080]http://www.outcastboats.com/[/#800080][/url] Outcast
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Re: [TubeDude] float for steel - EmuScud - 02-26-2003
One thing that I have found as a consideration is actually handling and landing the fish. I have used a standard round tube, kickboat, and a 6' pontoon. I feel more comfortable landing fish in a tube because I'm closer to the water and I feel safer leaning over the side. With the pontoon, I'm substantially higher off the water (a good 12") with no seat-belt to hold me on if I lean too far forward or to the side. If you go with a pontoon, I would highly recommend a net with a longer handle to elminate the need to lean when netting a fish.
When fly-fishing, I like the 'toon because you are higher when casting and you can see into the water better. The other advantage is working shallow water. In the pontoon I only draft 3-5 inches vs. 3 feet of me dangling under the water line.
One other consideration is wind. I grew up in south central Idaho where the west wind is a constant fixture. You become a sail when on a 'toon, where in a tube you have a lower profile. If the waves get too big, your more likely to get a waderfull in a tube.
Just my 2 bits!
EmuScud
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Re: [EmuScud] float for steel - TubeDude - 02-26-2003
[cool]Some excellent points. Those are all part of the considerations in selecting a new craft, and it's why I try to get a read on the kind of fishing someone will be doing, before I make specific recommendations.
I fished for years out of a plain vanilla round boat, and dared not dream there could be life after tubes. I hesitated to invest in the first Uboats, but could see tha advantages of entry and exit. When the first pontoons started showing up on the water I thought that this would be the ultimate system...until I saw them blowing all over the lake while I had little difficulty maintaining position in my tube.
After awhile, if you have the opportunity to fish multiple waters, for multiple species, under a wide range of weather and current situations, you can develop a better feel for what kind of system will work best under a given set of circumstances. I do not think there is a "one craft fits all" system, but you can make almost any system work under a variety of conditions.
You may have to trade off the higher casting platform of a pontoon for greater wind resistance of a tube or Uboat. Or, in moving water or shallow situations, you may have to invest in a higher floating pontoon for safety, underwater vision and line control issues.
Thanks for dropping in Mr. Scud, and thanks for the insightful contributions.
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