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+--- Thread: Utah Lake Closure? (/showthread.php?tid=983940)
Re: [SkinnyLynnie] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - TubeDude - 07-16-2016
[#0000FF]Without a qualified lab analysis you can't know for sure. However, the worst of the algae bloom was and is in the NE quadrant of the lake...near where the waste water treatment comes in...between Lindon and American Fork. But it spread quickly and aerial photos show other areas "greened up" in other parts of the lake.
The culprit is the [url "https://www.epa.gov/nutrient-policy-data/cyanobacteriacyanotoxins"]CYANOBACTERIA[#0000FF]. (LINK)[/#0000FF][/url]
From what I have read, the toxins are not secreted on an ongoing basis, but are more prevalent when the cells are ruptured or the bacteria are dying off. That would mean that there is little livelihood of fish in a lightly affected area having been exposed to enough toxins to have rendered them deadly. I would probably have no problem in smoking or frying them for consumption. But you have to make your own call on that one.
People and dogs who have developed symptoms are usually those who have actually ingested some water with active bacteria in it. As the digestive process breaks the cells down they release the toxins. But there is little to suggest that you will absorb them through bare skin. Still, better safe than sorry. Stay out of the water until we get the all clear.
The downside, for the future, is that the longer the bloom lasts and the thicker it gets the greater the potential for long term toxicity...and even fish kills. As the web article linked above points out, in addition to the toxins released into the water these bacteria suck a lot of oxygen out of it...both while alive and after dying and decaying. Sensitive species (like June suckers) will be the first to go belly up. But if it gets bad enough even the catfish and carp could suffer.
Makes me mad. When the algae bloom and warnings came a couple of years ago...about 2 months later in the year...I forecast that if the lake got much lower there would be an even greater problem. And when the "decision makers" decided to keep Utah Lake low for the benefit of the new water toys at Jordanelle I predicted we would have a bad algae bloom this year. But I had no idea it would come this early or be this bad.
From what I have picked up in studying this situation, I fear that even a big downstream flush of fresh water would do little to alleviate this year's algae bloom. It has to run its course...until cooler water in fall kills off the remaining bacteria. I can only hope that there is more remaining alive in the lake than some scummy green carp.
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Re: [gmwahl] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - Therapist - 07-16-2016
The
dest part about this is that the water managers are at fault for this huge crisis. They have withheld water from Utah Lake and allowed the nutrient levels to increase to the point that we got a HUGE bloom, many times bigger than what we normally get.l Because of the low water levels, the lake was not getting flushed and all that crap accumulated and voila, we have an even bigger problem. I am amazed that the June Sucker folks did not force the issue and have more water released into the lake. It wll be interesting to see what the result of all this is going to be !!
Re: [Therapist] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - gmwahl - 07-16-2016
I agree 100%
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Re: [TubeDude] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - bigdaddy84094 - 07-16-2016
[quote TubeDude][#0000FF] I can only hope that there is more remaining alive in the lake than some scummy green carp.
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+1 ^
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Re: [Therapist] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - bigdaddy84094 - 07-16-2016
[quote Therapist] The
dest part about this is that the water managers are at fault for this huge crisis. They have withheld water from Utah Lake and allowed the nutrient levels to increase to the point that we got a HUGE bloom, many times bigger than what we normally get.l Because of the low water levels, the lake was not getting flushed and all that crap accumulated and voila, we have an even bigger problem. I am amazed that the June Sucker folks did not for the issue and have more water released into the lake. It wll be interesting to see what the result of all this is going to be !![/quote]+1 ^
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Re: [Therapist] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - TubeDude - 07-16-2016
[#0000FF]Too late for affixing blame. But it is a combination of poor foresight and another bad water year.
The "June Sucker Recovery Program" may be reduced to going around the lake and scooping up all the dead ones.
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Re: [bigdaddy84094] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - castnshoot - 07-16-2016
Perfect conditions to introduce some Carp Herpes.
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Re: [Therapist] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - doggonefishin - 07-17-2016
[quote Therapist] The
dest part about this is that the water managers are at fault for this huge crisis. They have withheld water from Utah Lake and allowed the nutrient levels to increase to the point that we got a HUGE bloom, many times bigger than what we normally get.l Because of the low water levels, the lake was not getting flushed and all that crap accumulated and voila, we have an even bigger problem. I am amazed that the June Sucker folks did not force the issue and have more water released into the lake. It wll be interesting to see what the result of all this is going to be !![/quote]Agreed. It sounds like a fish kill at UL is not a question of if, but when. If it is bad, the stink will possibly permeate the entire valley. Then the political stink from an entire county of enraged citizens might force some changes for next year. Hopefully, there will still be some fish to catch at that point.
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Re: [TubeDude] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - fsh4fun05 - 07-17-2016
[quote TubeDude][#0000FF]Too late for affixing blame. But it is a combination of poor foresight and another bad water year.
The "June Sucker Recovery Program" may be reduced to going around the lake and scooping up all the dead ones.
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That's a good one Pat [laugh]
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Re: [TubeDude] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - FishingLunatic - 07-17-2016
TD do you know if Utah Lake has always received treated waste water? I wondered if the algae blooms still occurred or even if they did if the blooms were less severe before treated waste water was dumped into the lake. Actually, I know the history of the lake and know it used to be allowed for raw sewage to be dumped in the lake. I think its obviously an improvement to go from raw sewage to treated waste water but I don't know if that's still good enough. I agree the low water level(partially weather and partially as a result of our politics at work) is a major factor for this occurring. However, I wonder if the bigger problem is the fact that treated waste water is going into the lake. It's not really my field of expertise on what we could do about treating waste water, however I think at minimum the waste water release could be relocated somewhere else and the Utah Lake problem could be ameliorated. I guarantee even if the treated waste water went to some wetland right by the lake that was surrounded with cat tails and wetland plants that it would drain into the ground and filter through the soil and plants. I guarantee that would be better than dumping it directly into the lake. I know we want to blame low water level(our fault and natures) but I think we should start questioning the sustainability of doing things like dumping treated waste water directly into water sources. Dumping waste water into wetlands near a water source is 1 million times better for the environment than directly dumping waste water into the water source.
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Re: [FishingLunatic] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - TubeDude - 07-17-2016
[#0000FF]Poor old Utah Lake has always been a "dumping ground" for all the nasty stuff humans wanted to "flush". In the early days it received raw sewage, outflow from tanneries, municipal and agricultural runoff, etc. And for many years it got tons of nasty outflow from Geneva Steel.
Treated wastewater is probably the mildest "enhancement" Utah Lake has absorbed over the years. It has been treated to remove the "sludge" and to kill off (most of) the bacteria. It is a lot better than anything dumped into the lake in the past. The major problem with it is that it still contains dissolved "nutrients"...like phosphates and nitrates...that the algae feeds upon and grows.
About the only thing that has prevented Utah Lake from becoming a toxic waste basin is that it usually gets an annual flushing...from spring runoff. In "normal" years there is enough inflow to fill the lake to overflowing and dilute and send the nasty stuff down the Jordan and out to "sea". But any year the lake does not fill it continues to concentrate the objectionable elements without being able to send them downstream.
This year was especially bad. Water levels in Utah Lake dropped to a point lower than they did at the end of the last drought...ending in 2005. But there was no significant algae bloom in the late summer and fall of 2004. This year the lake was kept abnormally low with the decision to horde water upstream, in Deer Creek and Jordanelle. UL started out at a water level lower than the end-of-year water level last year. And as soon as temperatures began to climb this summer the algae bloom started, over a month earlier than usual and much heavier.
There are much better solutions than redirecting the flow of treated wastewater. After all, it is still water back into the lake. Possibly the biggest and best aids...in the future...will be to let more water into Utah Lake and to monitor and reduce the outflow when it is not needed elsewhere.
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fact is that the staggering amount of growth around Utah Lake...and in Salt Lake...has increased the demands on all available water. Poor old Utah Lake is the "football" that gets kicked around to satisfy the claims for more water. Unfortunately, it has seemingly reached a "tipping point" beyond which it cannot maintain a healthy ecology. There are solutions. Let's just hope that the folks in power use their brains and not their bank accounts to come up with the right solutions and to implement them.[/#0000FF]
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Re: [TubeDude] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - FishingLunatic - 07-17-2016
I agree TD. It's kind of embarrassing the lake named after our state is in the shape it is even with "improvements". Overall it's an uphill battle with all the things that need to be fixed such as the water rights issue. Like I've said before, Utah is the worst water using state per person which is double trouble being in a desert.
I think part of what's going on with the Utah Lake situation is also because there are goals set in place for improving the Jordan River and The Great Salt Lake. I know for a fact there are goals set in place by the state for improving the Jordan River water quality. Part of improving that has to do with improving dissolved oxygen, decreasing temperature, nutrient load and stuff like that. Those changes can't happen with the river not flowing.
I think there realistically needs to be a compromise. Although yes, the river is running high the reality is that if those 3 or 4 canals weren't there, the Jordan River would be 3 to 4x higher than it currently is. I think a combination of more water going into UT Lake, less going into the canals but keeping the river actually flowing, and ultimately fixing the waste water solution is what needs to happen for a healthier Utah Lake and Jordan River Ecosystem.
Going into the field of natural resources recreation planning management for my future career will be interesting and exciting but I'm sure I will become very frustrated at times. To be honest, the DNR, forest service, NPS, BLM, etc. have relatively little power when it comes to what happens even though they're the ones who have the biology, ecology, etc. knowledge. The decision making starts with the governor and makes its way down a bit before it actually hits that land management agency. We don't have many senators and such with Utahns recreation interests in mind. I'll just leave it at that.
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Re: [FishingLunatic] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - TubeDude - 07-17-2016
[#0000FF]Good luck with your career goals. Hope you make it out the other end of the educational maze with all of your mental faculties intact. We need some clear heads reviewing status quo and planning for the future.
Ya know, one of the other things that occurred to me as I have been reflecting on our current UL problems, is that Jordanelle is probably largely to blame for much of the water woes of Utah Lake. I was around before Jordanelle...and I recall the basic water situation with Deer Creek and Utah Lake. Even in our worst water years Utah Lake never got as low as it does now...after Jordanelle.
Jordanelle was a boon from the standpoint that it helped hold additional water during high runoff years...when the excess would just flush on down to Salt Lake. Since then it has been used as a good regulatory lake...to help maintain levels for Deer Creek, etc. But in a poor runoff year...like our last 3 or 4...it has withheld water that could have kept Utah Lake much healthier. This last year is a prime example. Jordanelle was allowed to fill higher than it has for years...and Utah Lake was almost dewatered completely.
We can only hope that the result (toxic algae bloom) serves notice to the regulatory folks that Jordanelle is the "new kid on the block" and that maybe our grand old lady...Utah Lake...deserves more respect.
Jordanelle does not produce any electrical power. Nor is the water from Jordanelle used directly by any downstream water users. However, it is part of the State Parks system and produces revenue from recreational use. It can only be assumed that the recreational use of Utah Lake was willingly sacrificed for the good of Jordanelle. Otherwise, Jordanelle could have been mostly emptied...to help sustain Utah Lake...without any loss except to the power squadron and the water toy crowd.
At what point does recreation supercede ecology?
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Re: [TubeDude] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - FishingLunatic - 07-17-2016
Thank you and I agree. Technology is a ways behind and then with a booming population and such its always hard to implement changes even when things are up to par. Other than recreation revenue and the current technology short comings and implementation challenges there isn't much argument to keep lots of our rivers dammed up. Studies consistently find that damming up rivers reduces water quality and amount of water due to temperature, evaporation and slowing down a flowing river. The problem is people don't understand the concept of the water table; they think if they can't see water that it isn't there. The reality is that most of earths freshwater is underground; that's where I see the future of using water sustainably heading. Really technological and implementation challenges and recreational profits of state parks are all that's keeping it from happening.
The DNR is also changing species of fish they are stocking in lakes such as Jordanelle. I'm not sure the philosophy behind it. I'm willing to learn how to fish for things like Northern Pike and Tiger Muskie but I'm worried the new changes might decrease fishing popularity and therefore our voice of what happens with our waterways. Fish like Northern Pike and Tiger Muskie are much harder to catch than things like Rainbow Trout that they'll be replacing. I'm working for them so maybe I'll be able to actually learn about the inside scoop of things.
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Re: [FishingLunatic] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - TubeDude - 07-17-2016
[#0000FF]I kinda wondered if DWR's new species introductions into Jordanelle might play some part in the decision to keep more water this year. The new kokanee will especially need deeper and colder water. The tigers can probably get by with less water...as long as there are plenty of trout and kokanee for them to eat. There sure ain't enough perch to sustain a large population of tigers. Most of the chubs are gone...and there is only a marginal smallmouth population. There will be fewer when the tigers get bigger.
Actually, I am pleasantly surprised by the aggressive new program of introducing new species into some of our lakes...like wipers, kokes and tiger muskies. Not like the days of old when they just dumped anything and everything into a lake and watched to see what made it. Good old Utah Lake has had just about every species you can imagine tried in its roiled waters...including chinook salmon at one point. And northern pike were actually planted there many years ago...before the June suckers became darlings and pike became the enemy. At least these days DWR is focusing more on planting sterile species that pose less risk for getting out of hand and damaging an existing water. If they don't work out, just let them die out.
I have lived and fished all up and down the Pacific coast...Northern California, Oregon and Washington. I have seen firsthand what excessive dam building can do to fish runs...and to stream ecology...with warming and chemical changes, etc. Pictures and historical writings about the before and after conditions when new dams were built tell us that it ain't always so good to try to control Mama Nature. She knows best what is best for her fishies...even if it ain't best for human interests.
As a dry state, Utah is well dammed (damned). It has to be in order to sustain the irrigation-based agriculture in the state. Without dams and reservoirs our farmers would suffer more years than they prospered.
From a purely fish-selfish perspective we throw rocks at the water-users who continue to take all the water that is allotted to them...in spite of the adverse affects on fishkind. But you can't fault them. Their livelihood and survival depends upon water. We just use it to run our water toys and maybe extract a few silly fish from it. And in Utah the two sides often clash over who has the greater claim on water resources. Not all wrong or all right.
I get on a soapbox sometimes. But I don't claim to have all the answers. Heck, I can't even remember the questions sometimes.
I guess the big thing with me these days is that I am approaching my "expiration date". And instead of being able to look forward to better fishing all I can do is look backward at how much better some of my favorite fishing spots used to be. Yuba Reservoir, Deer Creek, Jordanelle, Pineview...and now Utah Lake...down the toilet compared to former times.
Still got lots of pictures and memories...but sometimes that ain't quite enough.
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Re: [FishingLunatic] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - a_bow_nut - 07-17-2016
I would read up on the Ogallala Aquifer before thinking that ground water is any more sustainable than the current reservoir system that is in place now.
And if you deplete an aquifer it can take decades if not centuries or longer to replenish.
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Re: [TubeDude] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - a_bow_nut - 07-17-2016
[quote TubeDude][#0000ff]Nor is the water from Jordanelle used directly by any downstream water users.[/#0000ff][#0000ff]
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This has changed. Years ago the state approached the water companies on the south end of the Heber Valley to trade the water shares that they had in the Strawberry River for water shares out of Jordanelle. After it was all ironed out and put into place the infrastructure was installed and we have been using Jordanelle water to irrigate with ever since.
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Re: [a_bow_nut] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - TubeDude - 07-17-2016
[#0000FF]Does that mean we can blame Heber for dewatering Utah Lake?
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Re: [TubeDude] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - a_bow_nut - 07-17-2016
Yeah.
You should come and try out all of our personal lakes sometime.
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Re: [a_bow_nut] Utah Lake Closure? and eating catfish caught there - FishingLunatic - 07-18-2016
Well whether it be reservoir system or ground water step 1 towards sustainability is to use less than we currently use. I'm just stating basic facts from studies that consistently find that dams reduce water quality, increase temperature, and waste more water due to evaporation. And no I don't claim to be an expert on it but trust me, I've been studying in this field and the future of water sustainability is about decentralizing(no more reservoirs holding water in a central location). It realistically will probably take years but I've been studying that so I know what direction they're headed towards.
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